Pere Aragonès is very clear that his enemy to beat in these elections is the PSC and during the interview he gives to La Vanguardia he tries to distance himself from the socialists, despite the fact that he ends up including them in the club of responsible politicians, in front of those who they are not, in which he places Junts and the commons. He does not see a government pact with the PSC, but, unlike in 2021, he would not sign a document that would involve a health cordon that would exclude the socialists.
Most commentators agree that the electoral advancement benefits ERC. Faced with a minor pretext like the Hard Rock project, have they really done everything possible to agree on budgets and avoid elections?
We have done everything in our power. In fact, we delayed the presentation of the budgets to Parliament to give room for negotiation. They were budgets that allowed for a 10% increase in investment in education in the face of an urgency that I believe is shared. It was more than one billion euros in support of all the measures for the water cycle and against the drought, a clear commitment to reindustrialization, to research and knowledge, also to culture and health and to the improvement of the welfare state. But I have been reminded many times that I only have 33 deputies and most groups in Parliament have decided to reject these budgets.
With Junts per Catalunya, couldn’t he have made more of an effort?
We spent a month and a half waiting for Junts’ proposals. And when they are presented to us, we first see them published in La Vanguardia. So congratulations on the journal. But when we saw them they made it very clear that, regardless of their position on taxation, they represented a reduction in revenue of 1.2 billion and were therefore not credible, unless we were told what spending was to be cut . Not only that, we were being asked to increase spending. They were unfeasible measures. We took the ones that were viable and 70% were in a condition to be assumed, and so they were transferred, but they considered that it was not enough to vote for a budget that is better than all the previous ones.
Many projects have been left pending because the budgets have not been approved, for example in education. Can investments be recovered in another way?
Whatever is within our reach, always in accordance with the budget regulations, we will do it, but it is clear that not having budgets is not harmless. The budgets allow you all the room for action and the Catalan public finance law is clear about the limits of the budget extension. If the political groups that have rejected them wanted these measures in the field of education, drought, health workers and the rest of the public services, what they had to do was vote in favor of them and not ask that the presented by fascicles. This is a demonstration of the tactics we have experienced in recent weeks.
The decision affects many teachers who were hoping to have a salary increase. Can the Government make any emergency decree or other measure to apply it?
We are working to explore all the margins. If it is through a decree during this 2024, then go ahead; and if we have to wait until the 2025 budgets, also; but the sooner the better.
And what will happen to the investments to face the drought? Could we run into even more serious problems than anticipated?
Part of the infrastructure is planned for the medium term and will therefore go ahead. The budgets gave flexibility to grant aid to the most affected sectors. This will now look more limited. It’s not just about having the resources or not, but having them as quickly as possible. If the budgets are approved, all departments immediately have the resources and start spending them. If you have to enable extraordinary mechanisms, it takes longer. Now, the money that is due will come later.
The last survey of the CEO left the PSC as the first force with 42 deputies, ERC with 32 and Junts with 21. With this scenario, how do you face the elections?
I face these elections with all hope and with all awareness of a job well done. We started this legislature with nine political prisoners and we call elections the moment the amnesty is approved in Congress. We have eliminated sedition in the middle. We have more staff in the health and education fields than ever before. And more cops than ever before. We started this legislature with an economy badly damaged by the pandemic and the previous crisis and today we have the lowest unemployment in the last fifteen years. Today, Catalonia welcomes investments in many areas. For example the industrial sector, such as Lotte’s Korean factory in Mont-roig del Camp, the most important investment in 20 years. Or in research, that of AstraZeneca, with 1.3 billion until 2027.
But how do you plan to recover these starting positions?
In these elections, two models are chosen, two ways of seeing the country and doing politics. On the one hand, a way of doing irresponsible politics, of improvisation, of putting before party interests. It’s not mine. The clearest sign of this irresponsibility is rejecting the best budgets of recent years. We have chosen to always provide solutions, not to aggravate problems. And this goes for the budgets and for other opportunities that open up in the Spanish legislature to obtain unique funding and for us to have economic sovereignty. There are those who defend Catalonia and those who will defend Moncloa. I can’t imagine Mr. Salvador Illa standing in front of Pedro Sánchez to defend the unique and fair funding that the citizens of Catalonia deserve.
I understand that there are two axes, the national one and the purely management one. Is it in the latter that you distinguish between responsible and irresponsible?
We have always taken responsibility, but we see that there has been a lot of irresponsibility, especially this week in Parliament with the budgets. Both Junts and the commons will have to explain it to the public and to the sectors that expected educational, social, health improvements or investments in the municipalities. They have tried to reject me as president, but what they have done is to reject an improvement for the citizens of the country.
I interpret that you place the ERC and the PSC on the side of responsibility and the rest on the side of irresponsibility, right?
On May 12 there will be two axes of campaign: the axis of responsibility, in which there are those responsible, like us, and the irresponsible ones who have overturned the budget. And then there is the axis of national ambition, those who will always defend Catalonia and those who will always defend Moncloa.
Who is your rival to beat? Salvador Illa or Carles Puigdemont?
Illa and I have different country models. He will not defend Catalonia against Moncloa. Also economic differences. Mr. Illa’s model seems to me to be from the eighties. And I respect President Puigdemont for his career, but I believe that Catalonia must look forward. If we have to move towards the referendum and the freedom of our country, it is good to do so with a positive outlook that takes into account the whole of Catalonia.
Do you think that Puigdemont will be able to come to Catalonia and participate in the electoral campaign, as Junts maintains?
I would like to, but that is not for me to decide, but for the judges to decide. And we have seen what the dynamics of certain judicial decisions were. I think it would be good to be able to compare country models and know their positions on the drought, on economic development, on language and on how to deal with the relationship with the State. I have it clear. Dialogue and negotiation from ambition. This is what has made it possible to create the conditions for political prisoners to leave prison and to eliminate the crime of sedition. And without these steps we would not have reached the amnesty. But it is also what has allowed the State Government to claim support for the Catalan industry, as we did in the case of Seat’s Perte de l’omoció. We have also recovered dialogue with the European institutions. For many years the European commissioners did not want to see anyone from the Generalitat de Catalunya. We have held 14 meetings with European Commissioners during my term, many more than the previous three presidents combined.
When he says he wants to confront Mr. Puigdemont about his country model, is it because he thinks Junts doesn’t have one?
In any case, they will have to explain it. I’m clear which one is ours. I would say that it is opposed to what, for example, the PSC defends. Today, Catalonia’s growth will come from research and knowledge, not cement. Obviously, infrastructure is necessary and must be addressed in accordance with the climate emergency context we have. Today, the future of Catalonia also depends on defending our language. It is an essential social cohesion factor. And with me, as president, the Catalans have and will have a firm defender of the Catalan language. And the best example is the clear commitment we have made in the audiovisual field, which has been seen in Catalan cinema, which has rebounded after many years of drought.
Listening to him, he is focusing the campaign by placing more emphasis on management than on the identity issue. Do you think that this is the screen that Catalan society is now on?
They are two things that go together. To improve people’s lives, the tools of an independent State are needed. For me they are two inseparable elements. You cannot ignore social, economic or institutional issues to defend independence. Nor can you focus solely on management and not see that this country has a serious fiscal deficit problem and a State that does not fulfill its investments. Some believe that it can be governed as in the 1980s, when the fax machine worked and there were two television channels. And others find it difficult to see which is the way because they have many changes of opinion.
Surely, in the next Parliament there will not be absolute majorities. Does Esquerra draw red lines on pacts?
The agreements will depend on the electoral result and the program. Ours is a progressive programme, with republican values ??and which defends the independence of Catalonia.
I will be more direct. In the previous elections, the organization Catalans per la Independència got Junts, Esquerra, the CUP and PDECat to sign a document by which they would not agree with the PSC. Would you sign this document again today?
Regardless of the fact that I would not sign this document, the difference with the PSC is very large and therefore there are incompatibilities that can be overcome to reach a timely agreement, such as the budget, but to form a joint government the PSC should change a lot, I see it very far from our postulates. Today’s PSC is very different from Pasqual Maragall’s. I see a government agreement with the PSC as unworkable.
Well, it feels like a very strong relationship between ERC and the PSC. At the Barcelona City Council, at the Parliament and with the Central Government.
There are two large and consolidated parties in Catalonia. One is ERC, and we have worked hard to get here, in difficult circumstances, with a president who has been in prison for four years and a general secretary in exile, but we have the presidency of the Generalitat and a wide presence throughout the country. And the other party is the PSC, our electoral adversary, with which occasional agreements can be reached, but our opposing models make a joint government unviable.
There is a lot of talk about the return of Puigdemont, but what is the situation of Marta Rovira? Are you considering returning during the election campaign?
We have always been clear that certain instances of the State will take advantage of any opportunity and, therefore, we will not allow repression to act against our colleagues if we can avoid it. Therefore, now that we have passed an Amnesty law, we must guarantee a safe return for all exiles.
He has spoken a lot about the relationship with the socialists, but ERC also maintains a lot of tension with the commons. It was already seen with the labor reform and now in the budgets. What are these problems due to?
In fact, I have agreed three budgets with the commons and there was no reason not to approve those for 2024. The commons have decided to vote against it, probably to stand out from the ERC and the PSC.
Why didn’t the elections coincide with the European elections?
Catalonia has no time to waste. Therefore, the elections are the first Sunday that was possible. And the citizens of the country will have already lost enough time due to the fact that these budgets have been rejected. We are here to serve people. Therefore, the important thing is to have a functioning parliament and government as soon as possible.
What does he have to say about the unrest of prison officials?
First, to express my condolences to the family and friends of the murdered worker. I understand the pain and concern of prison professionals. It is necessary to see how the investigation into this tragic event develops to know whether internal mechanisms have failed. The claims of prison professionals about security and the need for more means are legitimate and we share them. That is why we have launched the program for the incorporation of more staff and I am extending my hand to reach agreements with the officials.
