A well-known Ukrainian politician – a member of the Ukrainian parliament in seven convocations, Doctor of Law and a long-term ex-head of the National Nuclear Energy Generating Company of Ukraine (Energoatom) and the State Concern Ukratomprom Andriy Derkach gave a detailed interview for the documentary film Ukraine: the Everlasting Present, dedicated to the 30th anniversary of Ukraine’s independence that touches upon the entire history of Ukraine’s relations with Russia and the United States since 1991. Here are the most interesting citations from this conversation:
About the absence of a culture of statehood, which the elite used to plunder the country for several years without hindrance
At the time of Ukraine gained its independence, the culture of statehood had not been formed in the country. Political and economic elites have appeared, but they have merged into one. Some parasitized on foreign values: Western democracy and a market economy, while others parasitized on friendship with Russia and the Russian language. At the same time, both elites robbed their people, privatized enterprises for next to nothing. Almost the entire main part of the elite was formed due to dishonest privatization and parasitism on energy resources – profit from gas and oil, metallurgy. However, no one invested anything in this period of time. Nobody gave us money.
About Western countries that encouraged policy of all-permissiveness for Ukrainian oligarchs in exchange for establishing a system of external control
– The main policy was still formed by local elites, local clans and the formed oligarchic capital. And basically, the game continued until today, when Western countries, Western embassies allowed the oligarchs to rob and steal until a certain time, and on the other hand, they tried to build a parallel system of government through the creation of a system of external control of the country. In fact, it began in 2003, when President Kuchma cemented the oligarchic system in Ukraine. At the same time, his son-in-law from a KGB agent became a philanthropist and benefactor, remaining an oligarch, an official donor to the foundation of Hillary Clinton.
About the destruction of Ukrainian industry by the IMF
– At that time, there were constant battles with the IMF, which was trying to destroy the industry, primarily mechanical engineering. We then stood for the development of leasing in mechanical engineering and attempted to improve shipbuilding. A little later, two nuclear power units were completed, in Rivne and Khmelnytskyi. These were the only large sites built in 30 years. Because the system that was being established in Ukraine implied that the oligarchs privatize the management of enterprises, that is, they did not pay money to the state and people for privatization, but management and enterprises were privatized dirt-cheap. And after the so-called Revolution of Dignity, Western governments, in fact, the G7, began to engage in the same deals – they actually monopolized the management system of large enterprises. All supervisory boards of large state banks, the largest enterprises, such as Naftogaz, Ukrposhta, Ukrzaliznytsya, are almost completely controlled by foreigners. We call them foreign tourists. And it would be fine, but it is very important to assess by the result. Even the Bible says: “You shall know them by the fruits.” Last week, the head of Naftogaz announced that the losses incurred by the management of these foreign tourists amounted to 200 billion UAH (7.5 billion USD). At the same time, the management received salaries of 1 million hryvnia (37,420 USD) per day. I think that only a few CEOs in the USA have such a salary.
About Ukraine’s loss of subjectivity in international relations
– I think that there are no independent countries in the world. There is subjectivity or absence of subjectivity in foreign policy. And all 30 years Ukraine has been stubbornly on the way leading to the loss of subjectivity. And literally this year we have reached the apotheosis, since the judicial system will be formed by independent foreign experts. It is absolutely abnormal when the country waits for two months whether Biden will call Zelensky or not, whether he will invite him or not and whether he will postpone his visit or not. It is dangerous to use nationalist myths and fascist ideology to achieve goals in order to build a model of dictatorship in the name of liberal values. And as a result, today we have actually built a dictatorship in the name of liberal values. And now it is an attack on our traditional values, family values, on the church. According to sociological studies, 63% of the Ukrainian population is ready to take it to the street. More than 70% of the adult population of Ukraine consider it important to send their child to study abroad so that he is not in Ukraine. That is, the citizens of Ukraine do not associate the future of their children with Ukraine. This is a really critical situation.
About the forceful transformation of Ukraine into a buffer zone and a “red rag” to Russia
– Ukraine is always being made a “red rag” to Russia – a buffer zone. A sort of pathogen that turns on at the right time in order to stir up Russia. At the same time, they are forgetting, we calculated in 2000 that 14 million citizens of Ukraine have relatives in Russia. These are fairly close family relationship. The main value of Ukraine is its creative population. A huge number of IT specialists today work for Western companies. Population lost, according to various estimates, about 3-4 million people in 30 years, who left Ukraine for good. We also have about 3-4 million people working in Europe, and about 2-3 million are working in Russia. This is the active part of the population, what you called the middle class. Despite all the difficulties, the education system has only now begun to fall apart completely – due to current reforms. I think that this “progress” in the collapse of the system will continue in the future, starting from September this year, but we still have a fairly educated and qualified population, thinking population.
About the U.S. policy in Ukraine and its interference in the internal affairs of Ukraine
– I see no need for the CIA to have its own office in the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU). The U.S. Embassy already controls all industries in Ukraine. It directly controls NABU, and completely controls the system of Naftogaz – the fuel and energy complex, most of the officers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, to some extent, have received relevant training either in Britain or in the United States. What for? They officially go to the embassy or communicate by emails, as NABU does. The United States defends its interests in Europe, including in Ukraine. And they only do what we let them do. If the game is to allow the next president of the country to steal, and he in exchange gives up the subjectivity of the country and allows external control, then such a game is taking place today. The same situation happened with Yanukovych, who placed a 7 billion loan, domestic government bonds, including in the U.S. jurisdiction, through the Franklin Templeton Investments fund. The same thing happened with Poroshenko, when he was allowed to steal, and he gave up independence. He was given guarantees for American loans – 2 billion, and he brought them under at his enterprises, in particular, at Leninska Kuznya. Now a criminal case is underway, as the price of the boats that were built was overstated three times. And why should the CIA have an office in the SBU, if it has so many grant eaters, corrupted structures, so-called activists who run around the streets defending the interests of not their own country. This is a big problem, since today, even among the lawmakers, almost in every faction there are so-called grant-eaters and “Soros minions.” It is impossible to talk with them on specific topics in the language of numbers. They remind me, since I remember the Soviet Union, the Komsomol members – they do not think about whether what they say corresponds to reality or whether it is an invented reality. Scientifically, they can be called “indoctrinated homunculi.”
As a result, our problems are being solved without us. The most striking example is the resolution of issues on Nord Stream 2 between Germany and the United States without Ukraine, even though it was about Ukraine. Or about the supply of the so-called European gas to Ukraine. This is Russian gas that goes 150 meters into the territory of Slovakia and returns with a taste of freedom and democracy and 50 euros stuck to the price for 1,000 cubic meters back to Ukraine. The yearly amount is 10 billion cubic meters, that is, 500 million euros in corruption earnings, annually. Do you think the representatives of the G7 in the Supervisory Board, including the representatives of the United States, are not aware of this corruption?
About the future of relations between the United States and Ukraine
– I think the U.S. is tired of Ukraine. Since 2016, Ukraine has been on the front pages of newspapers. First, it was about interference in one election, then in other, then impeachment thanks to a conversation between Zelensky and Trump. Then there was a story related to the well-being of the Biden family. As far as I understand, we have even tired out Germany, because for the last three months the leadership of our country has been busy supporting the Green Party over Angela Merkel. We are such a country – we must be in the center of events that do not concern us. Returning again to history, and to what is the culture of statehood. Any country that had a certain experience of statehood, the culture of statehood, formed some kind of elite or a class of government officials who clearly realized the boundaries they cannot cross. In Ukraine, which was formed for the most part during the period of the USSR, such a class was not formed. Therefore, it was necessary to take all the time or someone else’s historical nationalist myths and use them, or the history of foreign European values, in which no one believes, but they can be used. This is Kuchma’s position, the so-called multi-vector approach. This is called “past here and in between there.” As a result, you become an irritant to the whole entourage. On the 30th anniversary of independence, we found ourselves in the “ring of friends.” There is not a single country around Ukraine among its neighbors with which we have normal relations. With Poland we have historical problems and problems of nationalism and executions, the so-called Volyn massacre. With Hungary, we have issues related to the pressure on the Hungarians of Zakarpattia, the impossibility of studying in Hungarian. With Romania, it is with Bukovina. Until last year, we had normal relations with Belarus and Moldova. This year, thanks to foreign interests, we declared that the President of Belarus was illegally elected, because Biden is meeting some woman named Tsikhanouskaya. It is not clear who she is, but due to this meeting we betrayed our economic interests, trade turnover, family and friendship ties. Our judge was abducted in Moldova by Ukrainian intelligence officers. President of Moldova, the Prosecutor General made tough statements, I think that this is a huge damage to our relations. Relations with Russia have been soured since 2014. Do you think such relations with neighboring countries can be the result of the country’s independence and stability and sustainability in the future, for 30 years? That is, the result of development over 30 years is the loss of industry, population, territory, building confrontational relations with all countries bordering Ukraine, defending other people’s interests without taking into account the interests of its own population. What are we celebrating?
If Ukraine does not focus on its own interests and does not build up the friendly, economic relations with the countries surrounding it, then Ukraine as a state has no future. Today, on its 30th birthday, it has already lost its subjectivity, unfortunately, due to such behavior of the elite, which is irresponsible. I include oligarchs in the elite. The common population suffers because of external control. You cannot resent people for voting for the film “Servant of the People.” One cannot be offended that they first wanted to preserve the Soviet Union in 1991, and then voted for independence. They were deceived every time.
