This journalist meets Carlo Padial in a café in Barcelona near the La Vanguardia newsroom. It’s much colder than in 2006, when we met for another interview in the midst of the Pokemon Go pandemic. The cold seems to seep into the environment that surrounds us, more confused and cold than that hot summer.
Despite all the years and all the things that have happened since then, the headline from that interview seems just as valid today: “What’s happening now is basically happening on the Internet.” And that’s what this interview revolves around again, made seven years later.
Despite the fact that Padial is above all a writer and film and television producer, his relationship with the Internet is very intense. In fact, his last major project has been the documentary series CrÃmenes Online. In it, through six episodes, he addresses the darker side of the network.
It is a medium that he knows well, because when the term youtuber did not exist, Padial was experimenting with YouTube, creating pieces that seemed very exotic then, like Go Ibiza Go, but that are much better understood today. On his Pioneros del Siglo XXI channel we find videos that, if it weren’t for the fact that they cannot be viewed in high definition, would seem to have been published a few hours ago.
A few months ago you premiered the series CrÃmenes Online, a work in which you approach the darkest side of the Internet in Spain from television. What pushed you to make this documentary series?
Crimes Online premiered last September. We are assessing if there are 6 more cases that motivate us enough to do another season. The most difficult thing about a series like that is that in the end it dedicates itself to that, to collect crimes. It is not just about finding the cases, but about finding worthwhile testimonials. People who are willing to talk.
There are sectors that are very hermetic, for example the world of youtubers, of streamers. They are very protected and in general no one wants to talk. We are very happy with the top six we found. Things like making a documentary about Forocoches was something very special for us. Or cases like the cancellation of MarÃa Frisa, which is the first attempt to cancel in Spain and which luckily was unsuccessful. They had all the elements you could want for a series of this type.
You are just talking about the culture of cancellation in the case of MarÃa Frisa. What do you think of the number of cancellation cases that occur on the Internet?
When you take certain expressions that are widely used in social networks, such as red flags, the red flags, deep down the use of these types of expressions reveals a certain emotional shielding. In the background, everyone is crouching down, afraid to show affection, for fear of everyone. Depending on what you say, it could be a red flag, depending on what you say, it could be a gringe. The result is scared people, afraid to give their opinion, and around you there are people who are waiting for you. Who will be next? That, of course, generates a very blocked society. There has been a very strange breakup. Talking to someone in the real world, offline, is something that can still be done and is reasonable.
This is explicitly mentioned in the Online Crimes chapter about MarÃa Frisa. A way of communicating has been generated that is neither healthy nor sociable. No one would dare say the things they say on social networks to a person if they were in front of them. They wouldn’t speak in such derogatory terms about a movie, a book, or a person, nor would they retort in such bad manners. There is a purely human issue in face-to-face communication, where there is empathy and connection. Unless you are an absolute psychopath, you would question what you are saying or your attitude towards someone if you were in front of that person. On the other hand, in social networks we do not have that human contact.
Can you change that toxic culture that has been installed on social networks?
My feeling is that little by little people are starting to get tired of this toxic environment and to recognize that we have gone through a kind of collective alienation. Online Crimes, like other reports and documentaries that I have made, is in a certain way a chronicle of this alienation of the present.
You are also my film, my documentary about the youtuber Wismichu, is presented as a chronicle of a strange collective alienation into which we have all fallen. The impact of the digital world has been a huge revolution that we are still trying to process. It has had many effects that can manifest as criminality, but I would emphasize its pathological aspect more. This is especially interesting to me because of my leanings towards psychoanalysis.
If you’re in the business of creating documentaries or telling stories, this phenomenon is fascinating. Ever since I started making videos on Playground, I’ve mostly been a chronicler of sorts. Sometimes with humor, other times with less humor, sometimes in a satirical way and other times simply more distanced. It seems strange to me that this shocking moment is not talked about anymore, that we take it for granted or that we simply assume it.
Instant messaging is a topic that is often not discussed, but I believe that it is also transforming us. Do you think that the use of messaging to communicate is affecting us negatively?
It is interesting that you mention this because one of the issues we consider when doing Online Crimes. We wanted to explore how messaging apps like WhatsApp could be considered the darkest social network. This topic was on our list of possible episodes for the first season, but we didn’t do it because we couldn’t find a central case or a public event that would allow us to delve into that world, which is certainly chaotic.
A curious effect is produced: while on social networks people show themselves in one way, in applications like WhatsApp they reveal their true selves. Sometimes someone can publicly praise a movie made by a friend and at the same time send a private message saying it’s terrible. This is an interesting example of the strange world we have entered.
From the very messages that we have exchanged, I get the feeling that you are not comfortable using WhatsApp…
Personally, I don’t really like WhatsApp. I feel that it encourages the need for constant attention by providing coins in the form of messages. I don’t like those games of affection; I already have enough affection in my life. This form of communication stresses me out a lot, and also, it has replaced something that I think worked very well: the telephone. The idea that people under the age of 40 do not call on the phone is true, many panic when they receive a call. I don’t understand why we have put aside something that was already resolved, like making a phone call when you need something from someone. In two minutes, you could solve any problem without the need for video calls or thousands of text messages.
We have reached a point where calling someone on the phone is seen almost as aggression, and instead we have embraced this form of communication based on instant messages, which in certain cases, can be harmful and lead to toxic situations.
This form of communication can become addictive for some people, especially those who seek constant attention and validation through the messages they receive.
I’m not in too many WhatsApp groups. But I watch from family groups, where people post images of ISIS, explicit violence, or the war in Ukraine. Pornographic stickers are frequently used in the most common form of communication.
WhatsApp has become a kind of dark room of social networks. The industrial revolution caused suicides through a tube, all kinds of mental illnesses derived from the change of life because there was something deeply unnatural in that industrial existence that is suddenly imposed on us. Now the same thing is happening, people are deeply unhinged.
There are personalities who seem to be sentenced to use social networks in an unhealthy way…
The personalities that proliferate the most and attract the most attention are the most extreme. Most people don’t post anything, they’re already looking alone and the ones who post the most are the people who are on the edge. Those who tend to extreme their speech in one ideology or another. That has generated this terrible polarization.
Industrialization will incorporate this digital life, which has had a brutal impact, not only in terms of social networks. The simple fact of having that kind of extension of our consciousness, connected to others, is something so profoundly revolutionary. We are not only connected to others, but connected to the Internet. It is like a kind of external hard drive of our own consciousness that allows us to collect information. Sharing our consciousness with other consciousnesses is very cool, it’s very powerful, it’s very brilliant, it’s very radical, it’s the great thing we have, but it’s too much and I don’t think anyone is knowing how to manage it. Neither in relation to your children nor in relation to yourself.
Why do you think TikTok has achieved such success? How is it that it has prompted people to record videos, even those who have never done it before?
As someone who is dedicated to documentaries, movies, books, articles, my goal is to reflect and sometimes satirize the present. The current moment is amazing and complex, and it overwhelms you. There are several phenomena that change every 6 months; I even have a theory that every 2 years the Internet totally changes.
I have experienced this change in my work, both as head of video at Zeta and at Playground. Within these phenomena, TikTok is one of the most peculiar and surprising. It’s similar to what we saw on YouTube, Snapchat and Instagram, but in a much more aggressive way. It’s like in zombie movies, like 28 days later, where the novelty is that the zombies suddenly run and that’s kind of cool. TikTok has caught the zombies, and has set them on the run, so to speak. TikTok has taken the idea of ​​the youtuber and has accelerated it.
The TikTok algorithm also favors this. If it detects that you are interested in two Barcelona fringe characters, it has a unique ability to show you all the similar characters. Suddenly, your timeline is filled with extreme and quirky content, while someone interested in wealthy people from Madrid trying on shoes in their giant dressing room will only see that type of content. It is more extreme than what happens in other social networks. On TikTok, our timelines can be completely different.
It seems increasingly difficult to film or take photos in public spaces without someone bothering you. This is strange considering that now more than ever more people are narrating their videos on the Internet. What do you think is the cause of this certain obsession with one’s own image?
It is, one of the things that I have experienced and have discussed many times with Carlos de Diego, my partner and with whom I do almost all my audiovisual projects, is that when we started making videos and documentaries at BTB and then in 2014, we participated in that social video phenomenon thanks to 4G and social networks like Facebook. What has changed is that kind of extreme self-policing that everyone is now subjected to, that willingness to narrate oneself.
On one hand, this has made it more difficult to make the kind of videos that we used to make, but on the other hand, I think it’s the best time to make documentaries and reportages in history, because it’s one of the most complex times and there’s a lot to narrate every day, every week. Despite the obstacle that people already feel that they tell themselves and feel like an author, there is also a certain shielding to be told or to be looked at by eyes other than their own, or to be looked at by other screens or cameras that are not are the ones that you control.
And how do you approach such a change when making an audiovisual production?
For a documentary filmmaker, this change can be challenging, but at the same time, there is more to tell than ever. For example, the phenomenon of child YouTubers is amazing and there should be a documentary that tells about it, because it is an underground reality that does not end. These are the videos your kids watch every day, and it’s a very strange business model. You don’t know very well what they are seeing, what values ​​are there, what they are talking about, where they are. Most of the videos that my children watch, I don’t know where they were recorded from, they seem to be recorded in some Eastern European country but they are dubbed with Latin American voices. All the videos talk about rich people versus poor people, there is something deeply wicked about which, however, we know nothing about. But your kids are all day long clicking on those videos.
So, for a documentarian, writer or filmmaker, the number of phenomena like that that occur every month is inexhaustible. The challenge is that now, when you go out to record, people are more alert than ever, more vigilant. Everyone believes that he is potentially being followed by a paparazzi, that didn’t happen when we started recording. People have become hyper alert with their self-image and self-image management, and every last passerby in the background of a video you’re recording will want to report you. I’ve been through it constantly lately.
So how do you face these challenges as a documentarian in this age of self-policing and image management?
The important thing is to adapt and find new ways of telling stories, taking this reality into account. You need to be more creative and willing to explore new approaches. Sometimes this means involving the people we are filming in the creative process, so that they feel part of the story and not just passive subjects.
It is also essential to maintain ethics and respect for the people we are documenting. Even as people are more alert and vigilant, there is also a need for transparency and authenticity in the content we consume. The key is to find a balance between telling an interesting story and respecting the privacy and dignity of the people we are filming.
Ultimately, as a documentarian, writer or filmmaker, our job is to tell meaningful and relevant stories. Despite the challenges we face in this era of self-policing and image management, there are still many stories that deserve to be told, and it is our responsibility to find the best way to do so.
The challenge is that now, when you go out to record, people are more alert than ever, more vigilant. Everyone believes that he is potentially being followed by a paparazzi, that didn’t happen when we started recording. People have gone hyper-alert with managing their own image, and every last passerby in the background of a video you’re recording will want to report you. I’ve been through it constantly lately.
If this climate of obsession with controlling one’s own image becomes more accentuated, we may find ourselves with a problem… right?
Before, people didn’t care as much about being filmed, but we have to find ways to overcome those obstacles and tell what’s happening here because it’s endless and fascinating. For example, the HBO documentary Q: Into the Storm from a year or two ago is extraordinary and explains a lot to you. I humbly believe that Online Crimes also tells many things about a world that no one has wanted to look at, partly out of contempt. There is still a certain contempt and contempt for what happens on the Internet, as if it were a second-rate existence or second-rate events. But the reality is that it is the most important thing that is happening now.
Traditional media can no longer turn their backs on this, and that is why youtubers and streamers have gone ahead of them. As content creators, our job is to address these issues and find ways to tell these stories in a way that is relevant and engaging to audiences. Instead of belittling what happens on the Internet, we need to recognize its importance and adapt to this new reality.
Everyone has become the Kim Kardashian in their lives through social media, leading to a fear of being filmed by others and losing control of one’s own image. This situation affects businesses and companies of all types and has made it difficult to carry out reports and documentaries in a natural way.
We have more than 10 years of social networks in which people become the protagonist and the celebrity of their lives. His friends are also celebrities and build their own worlds. When someone outside tries to intervene or narrate from a different angle, it can be seen as aggression. This phenomenon has generated some confusion and mistrust as to who tells our stories and how it is shown to us if it is not ourselves.
People have also developed a different relationship with image and audiovisual content. Now, everyone has a great intuitive knowledge of the medium, but there is also a risk of losing the big picture and falling into a kind of egomaniacal hysteria.
This journalist ends the conversation with Carlo Padial with the feeling that it could continue for several hours. Padial is one of those people who makes you regret having stopped the recorder. As we walk out of the meeting room where we spoke, he mentions how it’s getting harder to access influencers and YouTubers naturally, that people trust random people on Twitter more than they do in traditional media, that the documentary in Spain is still very conservative and focuses on old issues, while there are intense and relevant stories in the present that could be explored on OnlyFans and Wallapop… Chatting with Carlo Padial is a bit like surfing the internet, where not there is the end, where everything is a jump to another part.
