On April 5, Lise Klaveness (Norway, 1981), the first woman to chair the Norwegian Football Federation in its entire history, also aspires to become the first woman to hold an open position on the UEFA Executive Committee. She is a former international player with her country, she was a lawyer and judge in Oslo when she retired before returning to soccer in law firms. A year ago, during the FIFA congress, she gave a speech strongly criticizing the choice of Qatar as the World Cup venue that reached the five continents.
What balance do you make of the World Cup after that speech?
It did not start well with the ban on One Love’s bracelets, with FIFA demonstrating all its power on the same day of the match. I didn’t like that, but afterwards it was a tournament where the fans felt safe and there were a lot of good games. So I congratulate FIFA because it was a success.
But…
All of that doesn’t change the fact that Qatar was an illegitimate election with unacceptable consequences. It was a country without infrastructure or local workers, so the risk of death was very high. They used a kind of slave system. I hope nothing like this ever happens again, we can’t celebrate World Cups that cost human lives.
Are you optimistic about being elected as a member of the Executive Committee?
It’s my first attempt so I sense that it’s going to be very complicated. Never before has a female president challenged for an open position.
What does it mean?
There is a place reserved for a woman on the Committee, which would have been more affordable for me. But in 100 years no woman has held any of the other positions and football is also the biggest sport for women so I decided to send a message with my candidacy.
Have you encountered much opposition?
The presidents I talk to tell me about geographic balance and my lack of experience but what about gender balance and having a female perspective. No woman in 100 years!
Did you get any advice?
The first thing I did was talk to a president of another federation who told me that he was going to give me advice, to be patient with equality issues. But before he gave it to me I had decided to do just the opposite. Hearing that you have to be patient after these 100 years is not good advice.
You were technical director of Norwegian football, women’s… and men’s. She is used to working with men.
I have friends everywhere and I feel both men’s and women’s football, I watch all the games. But if we want to normalize things and reward merit, we have to accept that the gender balance must change. And if a very important part of your organization is not represented when making decisions, it is complicated.
Is it realistic to think of total equality between men and women?
It is a complex question with complex answers. UEFA is not an equality department, it is dedicated to organizing competitions, but at the same time football is the biggest global phenomenon, also for women. I don’t think it’s realistic to think that in a few years we’ll achieve total equality and I don’t think it’s the goal itself either, but it is not having a system that continues to widen the differences with each passing day and continues to underestimate women’s football.
How is it achieved?
You cannot take something away from the masculine to enhance the feminine. They are very different markets and different histories and cultures. But we also can’t just accept that we have the least equal organization in the world.
How do you see the Super League project?
Everyone at UEFA thinks it’s a bad idea, that’s why we need to protect the current model, with relegation and promotion. It is the true culture of football.
Do you think you will see the light?
When they announced it two years ago, the project was almost destroyed. But I don’t think it’s a dead idea, I think there’s going to be a lot of dialogue going to be needed in the future because the problem is not resolved and we have a lot of challenges to address. The costs of the big clubs continue to increase and it is very difficult to reach a level of income to compensate them.
UEFA is already studying the Negreira case, how do you think it can end?
I don’t have enough information to make a judgement. I know the case above but I don’t know if it is about corruption and party fixing, or if it is more a case of irresponsible spending of money. Whatever it is, it’s clearly not good. I will follow it closely.
Does Norway talk about this?
Yes, definitely. But neither is it known in depth beyond what the media reports. As a lawyer that I am, I would like to have all the data and analyze the case because the media have their own logic and of course they always seek conflict and confront people. But I want to know the real reasons behind this case, although it does not look good and is not acceptable.
What would the exclusion of Barça mean for European football?
I’ve been a Barça fan since I was little, I love Barcelona. My children have the shirt. In fact, I lived there for a few months when my first child was born just to go to the games.
What a hobby…
I loved your initiative with UNICEF and what is behind the ‘more than a club’. Also that all his idea has been transferred to women’s football because it is not something common. At the age of 30 I played with Caroline G. Hansen, who was 17, and now she is at Barça. It is a club that I feel very close to, as happens to many people, it has changed football and it has touched our hearts with its style. For years it was perceived as a club that was not based on money but on values, and to see how they joined the Super League or to think that they can be left out of Europe hurts my heart.
Jakub Jankto publicly said that he was gay.
He took a very important step, showing courage, and I hope he was well received. But it is not something we can take for granted, we have to keep fighting.
Why do you think it’s still a taboo subject, especially in men’s soccer?
The stigma and the stereotype of a gay person is to be feminine and soccer is something very masculine in our society, and that many of the best players are compared to ballerinas. When you’re young, it’s difficult enough to go through puberty to be called gay, which perhaps is something that many people don’t say with bad intentions, but because of the culture we have, being seen as something feminine scares you.
Will this change?
The key is in the children, they are very flexible in these aspects, and we can change things if we talk to them in the right way.
