Five months ago Elma Saiz (Pamplona, ??1975) left Navarre to move to Madrid, where, at the head of the Ministry of Inclusion, Social Security and Emigration, she is responsible for ensuring the sustainability of pensions. In this interview with La Vanguardia, he points out that delayed retirements have doubled at the same time as early retirements have been halved, and he states that the extension of working life is being facilitated with incentives. In addition, he is advancing the proposal he will present on Monday (see attached information) to make it more flexible for scientists to recover the contributions for periods worked as interns, an issue that has put the entire sector on a war footing.
With the increase associated with the CPI of pensions and with the arrival of the baby boomers, is the system sustainable?
Yes, the reform carried out last term guarantees the sustainability of the pension system. It is clear that expenditure on pensions has increased with their revaluation and the generation of baby boomers, but in addition the revaluation of pensions is a commitment, it is to restore dignity to pensioners, it is social justice, something we will not give up as a Government. Having said that, with the reform carried out for self-employed workers, with the contribution for real incomes, with the intergenerational equity mechanism, with different measures to extend working life, we are seeing how retirements are doubling above the legal age and early retirements are being reduced. The legal retirement age is approaching the ordinary age. It is a reform to make our system sustainable. That’s why I want to throw a security message to the system.
As things stand, it is foreseeable that in 2025 it will be necessary to activate the closure clause, the emergency mechanism.
It is important to explain very well that what this clause provides is certainty. The European Commission’s report only looks at spending, which on the other hand is only a tenth of the Government’s forecasts, this average spending of 15.1% of GDP. Airef in 2025 will look at both sides, income and expenditure, and there are a series of measures put in place and we see that everything is going according to plan. But I want to remember that precisely what this clause gives is certainty; what it foresees is that if there was a deviation in the system, corrective measures would be established, this should not be seen as a negative thing. All the indicators show us that the situation is sustainable. In fact, there is a very important fact and that is that the pension fund, which was exhausted under the governments of the Popular Party, will end this legislature with 25,000 million euros.
If it is finally necessary to apply the closing clause, it will mean an increase in contributions.
As I say, this clause will be triggered if things go wrong. What we are seeing, the reality of the data, is that we are on the right track so that all the elements are rolled out, such as the solidarity quota and removing the limit of the contribution bases. What is a reality is the labor market data, that contribution income is rising above the 10% expected and that pensions have been revalued.
Incentives and brakes have been adopted to delay the retirement age. Is it being effective?
Certainly. The average retirement age is 65.1 years. We went from 64.4 in 2019 to 65.1 in 2023, and we are seeing that whoever wants, voluntarily, can extend the retirement age with incentives. It is important that we are aware of how we are evolving, what life expectancy is today, what our lifestyle habits are like, what the composition of our society is like. And that is why it is a good message that the real age is approaching the legal retirement age and that anyone who wants to can extend their working life with additional benefits. And this is happening, it’s a fact. Delayed retirements are doubling and early retirements are being halved.
They are now negotiating active retirement and you propose that in order for a retiree to have the salary with 100% pension they will have to wait five years. Is it logical to have to wait so long?
These are questions that are on the table of social dialogue. So I am very respectful of this process and I think that the important thing is that when the agreements are reached, then the details are explained and exposed.
In February, Fedea raised the possibility of 100% salary compatibility from the first day of retirement.
What I can tell you is that I share that the compatibility in our country of work and pension is certainly restrictive. Having said that, we will let the social agents do this dialogue and we can look for formulas that are agreed upon.
In the negotiation of early partial retirement and the relief contract, the unions complain about the obstacles you place.
It is very important to work with realities and the relief contract is currently in force, by the way, thanks to a decree approved in the Congress of Deputies which had the vote against the Popular Party and Vox, among other political forces. It is important to remember this because you hear messages calling for regulations and when you have the opportunity you vote against them.
There are more than 31,000 self-employed people who have to return the aid granted during covid. Do you need to claim these amounts?
There are one and a half million self-employed people who were protected during the pandemic in an absolutely effective, fast way, the effort made by the Administration, the speed with which mechanisms were put in place to protect workers be something exceptional. This needs to be highlighted. The fact that there are 2% of the group that received protection to which they were not entitled because they did not meet certain requirements is something that obviously cannot cloud this spectacular protection that they did, by the way, that at that time they were at risk 4 million jobs and what we’re seeing is that we’re growing in membership four years later.
These more than 31,000 freelancers did not meet the conditions?
There were some requirements. It is obviously public money that is put in the hands of the citizen who meets a series of requirements and it is very important. By the way, this also highlighted how important it is to be registered, to be aware of tax obligations and work obligations, because the public is what protects.
You are proposing to create a gateway so that lawyers and solicitors attached to the mutual funds system can transfer to the Special Regime for Self-Employed Workers (RETA), but you have put many conditions.
I practice a useful policy, a policy that aims to solve problems. We have come up with a solution to this situation, not generated by the ministry, which happens so that from the year 2027, except in cases of multi-activity, it is mandatory to be part of the RETA. That the contribution to the mutuality reaches the minimum that is also established in RETA, which was not the case. And we will give a solution to many people, because there were people who could not choose until 1995, who went directly to the mutual fund, they had no choice. We will establish this gateway, but we will go further, protect more people and extend it until the year 2005.
When the minimum vital income was created, it was calculated that it would have 2.3 million beneficiaries, a figure that has not been achieved.
Imagine what would happen if the minimum vital income did not exist when it reached 1.7 million people in April, whom it helps to avoid falling into poverty.
But there is difficulty in reaching the people who need this help.
It is a difficulty that is not new in this kind of benefits. A very important thing is the social policy laboratory, which is something that accompanies the minimum vital income (IMV) thanks to the Next Generation funds, 212 million investment, itineraries throughout the territory. And what it makes clear is that, applying the scientific methodology, we are evaluating the policies with a decalogue of recommendations that show us, for example, that seven letters are needed to reach a citizen. This what makes us is that we can make decisions and correct policies.
The social dialogue table meets this Monday to discuss the order that regulates the recovery of non-work practice periods. After a meeting with scientists and researchers, who are the groups most affected by not having been quoted during their periods as fellows, you have promised a new proposal. Which one will it be?
Miri, after a week of meetings, we have decided to make the conditions more flexible. The proposal that we will present on Monday modifies four aspects. First, with reference to payments, so that the contribution base will take as reference that of the year in which the activity took place. Secondly, we will extend beyond two years the deadline for requesting the recovery of these periods, and also the years that can be recovered, for those who in 2011 had already recovered part of the period. And, finally, they will have a longer term to pay the fee, making it easier to return it.
Is it enough to convince the scientific associations that have rejected the previous approaches?
What we are doing is responding to a demand that the scientific community has made for years with an exceptional and reparative measure that serves, let’s not forget, to improve the future pensions of this group
In the Catalan electoral campaign, the PP linked immigration with insecurity.
Look, the Popular Party has a manifest incoherence, and I’ll explain. Two weeks ago they voted in Congress in favor of processing a popular legislative initiative that has to do with massive regularization, while we have seen how Mr. Feijóo embraces Vox’s theses and this obviously improves his electoral result of Catalonia has had the cost of linking immigration to absolutely negative issues. I will certainly not allow any reference that links immigration to negative aspects, none. I do nothing but stand firm in the face of any manifestation in this sense.
At what point will the citizen be able to go without an appointment to the Social Security offices to be attended to?
Miri, I can tell you that today (Tuesday), in Catalonia, early in the morning there were appointments available for face-to-face care for the same day in the four provinces of the community. In addition, in Barcelona, ??Girona and Tarragona there was an appointment for telephone assistance also for the same day. Something similar happens throughout the country, especially in provinces that have suffered dating problems in the past such as the Community of Madrid, Las Palmas, Segovia, Seville or Bizkaia. In any of the provinces consulted today, the citizen was offered an appointment available in both ways, in person and by telephone.
