Just over a month ago, the crosshairs placed Fernando Grande-Marlaska (Bilbao, 1962) outside the central government. They failed again. In a few weeks he will become the Minister of the Interior who has been in office the longest after Sánchez returned to support him. He closes the year with the “big objective” that his department set during the Spanish presidency of the EU: to achieve the migration pact of the 27.
Is the pact they reached the one he would have liked to sign six months ago?
It was one of the top priorities of the Ministry of the Interior during the Spanish presidency of the EU. It is not the pact that I would have wanted, but I like it, because it is an agreement of the 27 countries on a matter as sensitive as immigration, which has been an important element of division in recent years. I would not have accepted a pact that was not respectful of human rights.
The vice-president Yolanda Díaz assures that it is a step backwards, that opens its hands to the agenda of the extreme right in Europe.
It is a step forward, because there was nothing before: we have a migration pact in which solidarity is spoken of for the first time. And with scrupulous respect for human rights. The external dimension is addressed with the countries of origin and transit, not only in the fight against mafias that traffic in human beings, lives are also saved, since 40% of irregular departures are avoided.
How will Spain adapt to apply the pact?
Spain is one of the most prepared countries. He is an advantaged student. The crisis regulation will help complex transitory circumstances, such as those we have been able to experience in the Canary Islands, to be addressed in a co-responsible way by the EU. Not only in Spain. This migration pact will also avoid situations like those in Lampedusa.
The country that does not want to help and does not host the quota of applicants will have to pay 20,000 euros for each person it does not host. How does this measure match the concept of solidarity?
No, all the European partners, the 27, have an obligation to cooperate. Another issue is flexible solidarity. Countries that cannot undertake the commitment of relocating migrants assume another type of collaboration, financing projects that will favor the fight against mafias in third countries.
The oenagés criticize the seven-day deadline for classifying migrants because they can turn into prolonged detentions. Will we see border detention centers in Spain?
There is no possibility of violation of fundamental right. And fewer people in vulnerable situations. As for the centres, the border procedure does not require that there be a detention centre. The only requirement is that the applicant be available to the authority that processes the international protection file.
Italy intends to build centers to deport immigrants in Albania.
The Constitutional Council of Albania has suspended the agreement. Migration policy is a policy of the EU, it is not a policy of each of the countries. Let no one doubt that any agreement implies absolute respect for fundamental rights.
It has referred to third countries of origin and transit. let’s talk about it Is Morocco still a reliable partner?
Morocco has always been a reliable partner; we have twinning relationships developed over time. Of a loyalty, in both directions, maximum.
And why does Rabat resist reopening the customs in Ceuta and Melilla, as it was signed?
I don’t think he is reluctant to comply, but that all agreements take time. It is not for any lack of will.
One of the highest points of the Senegalese cayucos crisis coincided with the unblocking of European aid to Tunisia. Are you aware that the Senegalese authorities have been offended?
Our cooperation with Senegal is extraordinary. It’s an exceptional job. We have a team from the National Police and the Civil Guard with a ship and a maritime surveillance plane. This is developed, there has been no change. It had nothing to do with this circumstance, but more in the internal key of Senegal.
Elections are coming soon in Senegal. Will this influence the influx of shepherds on the Canary route?
Migration is here to stay and what we need to address is how to deal with irregular migration. The destabilization in Africa is causing many people to leave their homes. This requires a comprehensive response, what we call “advancing frontiers”. That people don’t need to go out. Since 2018, we have been transferring this need: in the pact, the external dimension has support.
With Algeria, diplomatic relations are reconstituted, but in times of crisis, are you aware that you have used immigration as a political weapon?
Of course not, I refer to the statistics of irregular entries originating on the Algerian coast. I would even say it has decreased. Relations in terms of border control are excellent and they are also excellent in terms of security.
You, who belong to the judicial career, how are you experiencing the clash between the executive and judicial powers?
There is no conflict between the executive and the judiciary. Sorry to disagree. The judiciary, made up of more than 5,500 judges who issue sentences every day, is an example of independence and impartiality: the basis of the rule of law.
Do you think Junts, ERC or EH Bildu are going too far in their accusations against the judiciary? Is there lawfare in Spain?
There is no lawfare in Spain. Spanish judges fulfill their duties with strict adherence to the legal system in terms of independence and impartiality.
So, when the judge of the National Court considers that the cause of Tsunami is terrorism, does he think it is an excess or is it part of the instruction?
Court rulings must be respected. All. When the causes are not definitively judged, it is still necessary to be more cautious in the assessment.
Do you see a risk that the protests in Ferraz have ignited a wick of violence that could spread as the amnesty law is processed?
Spanish society is aware that we have suffered a risk. Society will not accept these absolutely unacceptable behaviors. Not only in Ferraz, but in all of Spain. This was prompted by political statements. You have to be very careful with what you say, because it can create a problem in the streets.
Vox doesn’t seem to have read it the same way…
I hope that parties like Vox realize that Spanish society does not accept this type of political behavior that can lead to what we have seen in the streets; which is a society of intolerance that is not liked by the vast majority.
Will there be an opportunity this legislature to reform the gag law? Is it open to ban the use of rubber balls?
We made a significant effort last term to reform the Citizen Security law, especially in some of the aspects, such as the right of assembly and association. We did an extraordinary job that was ultimately thwarted by unreasonable demands. It remains in our program: it is a priority objective, but always combining a balance between the defense of fundamental rights with an essential guarantee for the forces and security bodies of the State to do their work. This balance is essential.
A month ago, Minister Bolaños assured that the Interior would process the escort request for former president Carles Puigdemont. Will it be processed?
A report has been requested from the State Attorney’s Office and we are waiting to receive it.
In August 2018, when you were already a minister, you were asked for a report from the Bar for this matter and you defended that it was not appropriate. Why is he asking for it again?
There is a request from the Government of Catalonia and we understood that it was appropriate and proper for there to be a report. Every time there is a request, there is a report. The reports must be updated or ratified, if applicable, but always the report accompanied at the time of the request.
If the State Attorney’s Office is in favor, will it be processed?
We will assess all the concurrent circumstances. What there is no doubt about is that any decision that is adopted will be in accordance with strict compliance with the legal system, in parameters of absolute legality.
A historic claim of independence is the transfer of the building of the Directorate of the National Police of Catalonia, in Via Laietana. Are you willing to sit down and negotiate it?
I am not aware that the transfer is being requested. I will say one important thing: it is not on the table, not by a long shot. And if we go to the bottom of the matter: the buildings where execrable crimes were committed in these 40 years are being resigned by all public officials, be they civil guards, national police or civil servants of the State, who are working with scrupulous respect to human rights and fundamental freedoms. This is the most important proof of the resignation of any building, not just one in particular, about which you ask me, but of the many buildings where, unfortunately, with a dictatorship, human rights were systematically violated.
Weeks ago, almost all crossings took him outside the Interior. Did he see himself becoming next month’s longest-serving minister?
Well, a month ago, a year… and two, I was also seen outside.
And why do you think that is so?
I do not know. Once appointed as a minister, the next step is to leave. And this will take place when the Prime Minister understands that another team must occupy the ministry. But as long as I have the confidence of the president, I will have all the energy and strength to continue working for the benefit of the security of society as a whole.