Martín de Riquer (1914-2013) has been one of the most outstanding men of letters that Barcelona has produced in the 20th century. A long-standing humanist, philologist and cultural historian, he was president of the Royal Academy of Good Letters, an academic of the RAE and a professor with important academic positions. Among his disciples are some of the most prominent figures in current philology.
On April 22, 2005, in the Saló de Cent of the City Hall, Martín de Riquer starred in the “pregón” that opened the Sant Jordi festival that year. In reality, it was a long conversation with the person who signed this, then curator of the Year of Books and Reading. It constituted one of his last public interventions of some length and appears transcribed here for the first time, when ten years have just passed (September 17) since his death.
At the table sat, with Riquer and Vila-Sanjuán, the mayor of Barcelona Joan Clos, the councilor for culture Ferran Mascarell and the editor Jaume Vallcorba, who in recent years had recovered a good part of Riquer’s work. Clos welcomes the attendees “to this event that is already becoming a tradition. It is the third time that this announcement of the reading has been made the day before Sant Jordi: prelude to a celebration of culture and coexistence”.
Jaume Vallcorba, in his gloss, described Riquer as “one of the most eminent Romanists in the world.” He celebrated his work as a codifier of a canon of medieval Catalan literature, as well as “editor of troubadours and of so many medieval poets and prose writers, of Don Quixote, a scholar of Heraldry, of medieval weaponry, of some of the most conspicuous knights… Immense scholar , the word ‘wise’ is more suitable for him – Vallcorba added -. He is one of the best readers he has ever had the opportunity to meet. And he is because he deeply loves literature (…). His classes, in addition to being erudite, stood out for their clarity and enviable amenity, based on their in-depth knowledge of the texts. For the love of literature and its aesthetic and moral virtues.”
Sergio Vila-Sanjuán. Doctor Riquer, you are considered an indisputable authority on practically any aspect of medieval society. Why his fascination with this historical period? What is there in the medieval world that the current world does not have?
Martí de Riquer. That’s like asking a Hellenist why he likes the Greek world. Well, I like the medieval. Maybe because since I was little I was very involved in his subjects, and I took the plunge. You don’t work with enthusiasm if you don’t have fun, and I had a lot of fun.
He has devoted much attention to the troubadours, who in the 12th century renewed European literature with their compositions. What were these Catalan, French, northern Italian troubadours like?
These were poets who often also recited, but other times they had reciters for hire, or at their service, to spread their poetry. A troubadour never writes to be read, but to be heard. It is a poetry that we betray every time we read it, because it is not written so that it enters through the eyes, but through the ears, and with music. In fact that is something that also happened in ancient Greece. Over time it has disappeared, although some aspects of sung poetry remain, even at minute levels. How many poets of the 16th and 17th centuries do not begin by saying “Canto”…? Virgilio also starts by saying that he sings. But they don’t sing; they are writing! The idea of ??singing, of dissemination through a good voice and music, has been inherent since the beginning of literature.
He has written that many times these troubadours were protected by the ladies of the Court to whom they sang. What were they like?
We are facing a system of acquiring prestige, at a time when there was no press or television. So that they know in Piedmont that the lady of Narbonne is very beautiful and very giving, there is no other way but for a singer to go around the court of Piedmont explaining it. On the other hand, troubadour poetry does not only cover love, but also politics; The great lords had troubadours at their service who sang against the enemy’s policies, and the enemy had troubadours who responded to the censures they had received from the other. Very interesting controversies occur… Servintes, which is this genre of political poetry, is somewhat equivalent to current press reports. Everything we have and feel today also existed then, but in other forms.
Some troubadours were people with intense lives, and sometimes tremendous things happened. You tell what happened to Guillem de Cavestany…
The jealous husband is the great enemy of troubadours, to insult someone the worst thing you can call him is “jealous.” A jealous husband has Guillem de Cavestany arrested; They kill him and remove his heart, because when the hatred is cordial, it is the heart that is guilty, not the brain, as has happened in other cases, in which the dead man’s brain has been removed. The husband makes the troubadour’s heart rustle and when it’s time to eat he takes it to his wife. And then he asks her, “What did you think of this dish?” “Delicious”. “Well, it was the heart of Guillem de Cavestany.” “I liked it so much that I will never eat anything else again.” The lady throws herself out of the window and kills herself. It is a wonderful, wonderful tragedy, it is undoubtedly a lie but it gives an idea of ??what the attitude and thought of troubadour poetry are.
That even broke religious barriers. You evoke Raimbaud d’Aurenga’s passion for the Countess of Urgel, who, when she was already a nun, confessed that if he had gone to see her, she would have let him touch her bare leg. The troubadour had to be irresistible.
Or he believed it… (audience laughter).
Do you prefer to speak in Provençal language or Occitan language, on purpose of all this literary world?
I always say Provençal, which is the term they used. “Occitan” and “Occitanism” are neologisms. They could speak of “llengua d’oc”, but “Occitan” they never used. I use the word “Provençal” in an extensive sense, as we say “Castilian literature” regarding writers who are from León or Andalusia.
Let’s move on to the knights of the 15th century, another of his great objects of study. What ideals moved them, in that era that Johan Huizinga baptized as the autumn of the Middle Ages?
In them we find above all a lot of what we would call paveria today. Between them it was about wanting to be the best knight, and often their fights and his challenges are to achieve the European record, as a boxer would do today. He can disguise himself with love or political problems, but above all it is about male exhibitionism.
In this sense, does Tirant lo blanc, which you have studied so much, give us the best example of a medieval knight of this era?
Yes, it is a good example because it is very human. Let us not forget that Tirant, so brave and victorious, falls and breaks his leg when climbing a wall. That would never happen in an Arthurian novel. Here is the human note that Joanot Martorell gives to his character.
In the Middle Ages, but also in later times, literature and life are often confused. That is possibly one of the great themes of his work, Dr. Riquer. You explain, for example, in Llegendes històriques catalanes that the famous story of Guifré el Pilós and the four bars, which would have given rise to the Catalan flag, is historically impossible, due to a matter of chronology, and because it comes from a novel…
Yes. Firstly, in the time of Guifré el Pilós, 9th century, shields did not exist, so he could not paint his own with blood; They are from the 12th century. On the other hand, in La queste del Saint Graal, anonymous from around 1230, widely read in Catalonia, Josefés, son of Joseph of Arimathea, with the blood that comes from his nose paints a red cross on the silver shield of King Evalach , shield that Gilead, also a descendant of Joseph of Arimathea, will inherit. I suspect that this is the origin of the legend of the four bars.
Another legend that it addresses is that King James I the Conqueror would have been fathered by deceit, since his mother posed as another woman to enter the bed of King Peter the Catholic, who did not even want to see her. You point out that that possibly isn’t true either.
This substitution in bed is a literary theme found in classical mythology. But here it is of special interest. When the queen goes to bed with the king, the chronicler explains – who is her son, James I himself, who was born in this town hall – that the lady brought with her numerous witnesses, who burst into the room in the morning. following. And all this was to justify the origin of King James. King Peter and his wife Mary of Montpellier had always lived separately. If it could be proven that King James was not his father’s son, the French crown could take over Catalonia very easily. I believe that there is a political intention here, as in many of these legends.
It gives the impression that you have lived the medieval world almost as if it were the present. Is it true that with some of his friends, such as the former director of La Vanguardia Francesc Noy, he usually spoke in Latin?
No, no, I have not usually spoken in Latin with anyone! (audience laughter). I haven’t been to the seminar! It would be very difficult for me and I would do it with a horrible fear of making mistakes (audience laughter).
Let’s move on to Don Quixote de la Mancha, a work to which he has dedicated decisive studies and on which he has carried out great teaching. Was it reading Tirant lo blanc that led you to Don Quixote, or did it happen the other way around?
It was the reading of Don Quixote, and the praise given there, that led me to Tirant… I was very young, and I thought: “You have to read this novel, if you see that it is so good” (audience laughter) . It was difficult for me to find an edition but I found it, I read it and I said to myself: “Cervantes was right.”
A man in love with the medieval world like you, didn’t you feel a certain misgiving about the position of Cervantes, of whom it has been said that what he did was bury the Middle Ages?
No, nooo… I came first to Cervantes and then to the Middle Ages. I read the parody first and then the parodied books. And it turned out that I liked parodied books. But the parody even more!
So, it had a stimulating effect on you…
We cannot interpret Don Quixote as the people of the 17th century did, who laughed thinking: what I have read with so much pleasure is animalistic. It would be better if they had made us read Amadís as children so we could later get to Don Quixote. We would understand better what it is about.
He has thoroughly documented the relationship of Don Quixote and Cervantes with Barcelona. What is your favorite scene from the Barcelona episodes?
There are so many… I suspect that the beach where Don Quixote and the Knight of the White Moon fight must have been what is today the Plaza de Antonio López. And I imagine Don Quixote’s parade between the current Set Portes restaurant and the Civil Government, because Barceloneta did not exist. Therefore it had to be there, the beach reached there. And that explains why the city councilors come out to see the combat, and they leave through the Puerta Grande, the so-called Sea Portal of the sea wall, which was where the Nautical School is today. The topography of Barcelona is well described: if Cervantes lived in the house on Paseo de Colom, 2, and went out to the balcony, he had Montjuïc on his right. And he explains that they were firing cannon shots from Montjuïc because they were pursuing some Turkish ships. And to the left the scene of Don Quixote’s surrender takes place. Then there is that sun, you have to go on San Juan day to see the sun rise from Paseo de Colom and then read Cervantes.” Red and big as a buckler”, he writes. It’s true! It is a sun so monumental and red that Cervantes had evidently seen it!
And the printing press he describes would be that of Sebastià de Cormellas. Cervantes wants to show that Barcelona is a city of books…
In Don Quixote’s journey, where could he find a publisher? It doesn’t go through Zaragoza, so it is logical that the first big city it finds has one. And I say editorial because then the printing press and publishing house were the same, the editor printed the books.
His book Fifth Generations of a Catalan Family has been seen as a kind of encyclopedia of Catalan life over a thousand years. In it you move halfway between history and the familiar narrative of nineteenth-century authors whom you admire.
But it’s all true! Everything is documented! There is nothing invented in this book.
Are there precedents for a work like yours?
For example, there are the Memoirs of Josep Maria de Sagarra, where he writes about his ancestors up to the 18th century. But he doesn’t start from as far away as I do. I think that if there were ten or twelve books about Catalan families like mine, we would have a very clear history of Catalonia.
And in the framework of universal literature? Do you know of any other family chronicle that covers such a long period?
I don’t know her… It occurred to me to write this one for fun. She kept the documents at home, she was very lucky that they had been preserved in her family archives. My great-grandfather, when a revolution took place in Barcelona, ??immediately wrote: “above all, hide the archive.” There has been a mania in the family to preserve it.
And his mother put him in order.
This file was very messy and dirty. And my mother, with enormous patience, read the documents in Latin, in ancient Catalan, and she organized them perfectly by people and by topics. And thanks to that I have been able to write Quinze generacions…
You emphasize that throughout the 16th century the Riquer family lived “in an exacerbated state of violence.” These must have been difficult times…
Well, it was a time of family struggles, in Lleida we found them facing kidnappings, murders… But that happened in all families (audience laughter).
How did the Riquers go from weapons to letters?
My grandfather Alexandre, who was a Carlist lieutenant, wrote a series of books, and was also a painter.
If you had to choose a particularly interesting century of Catalan life, which one would you choose?
The XXI (laughter and applause from the audience; Riquer smiles mischievously).
When you pass by Carrer Ample, do memories of your childhood come back to you?
Yes… I was born on the corner of Ample Street with what is today called Avinyó, more or less in front of the Piarists. It was a very beautiful street. Around seven in the afternoon we saw the car parade, with the very changed ladies. Families painted different colors on the wheels to distinguish themselves. The morning was very busy, vendors were circulating shouting, and others with flutes. The handlebars paraded, they played some pieces, people went out to the balcony and they threw ten cents at them. People passed by showing monkeys; I also remember a goat that they put a ladder on. The goat went up, waved from above and came down again (laughter from Mayor Clos and the public). Very funny things happened when I was little, if I settled on the balcony I would always find a show. Crazy people passed by, like the one who circulated shouting “I am the brave León”, with a stentorian voice… We saw him every day and no one knew who he was. La Monyos, an essential character, always so painted and muted, with five or six children behind her shouting “La Monyos!” You found out about the news before reading the newspaper, because the salespeople shouted the most important news. “The Vanguard, The Advertising and The Deluge, with the death of Mr. Maura!” And you already knew what had happened. Anyway, I’m improvising. All this is because I am very old, otherwise you would not ask me these questions (audience laughter).
You have participated in large publishing companies. How did the project to prepare the History of Catalan Literature, with Antoni Comas and Joaquim Molas, come about?
Josep Calsamiglia and Alexandre Argullós, from the Ariel publishing house, who had successfully promoted the Historia dels catalans by Ferran Soldevila, asked me for it. I told them yes, but that for the modern parts I needed help. And I looked for Comas and Molas, who had been my students, from the same grade, with whom I saw often and who did very well. I wrote three volumes. He gave a lot of work, there were days when he reviewed collated proofs of the first, galleys of the second and wrote the third at the same time. It was a time of impressive work, but since it was so much fun…
Another great project, the History of Universal Literature with José María Valverde, for Planeta, in ten volumes.
Yes… We distribute it in a very simple way: I the Middle Ages and Don Quixote, and Valverde everything else (laughs).
His History Report, an anthology of first-person testimonies, is fascinating.
It was a great success, with many editions. It included the death of Jesus described by Saint John, or that of Louis XVII by someone who saw it. The historical events reported by those who had witnessed them, as if it were a report. It presented complications because sometimes you doubted whether a certain person had really been a direct witness or not. And when you were sure, a different version appeared. From some episode I included two testimonies from confirmed witnesses, and there were precious discrepancies between them.
What is the book you have read the most times?
Dictionary! (audience laughter).
Which?
The one from the Academy and the Fabra.
And what is the detective novel that you like the most, of the many that you have devoured?
Thinking about it a lot, those of Conan Doyle. In some cases the essential enigma may be missing, but they are wonderful.
What are you reading now?
A history of Lleida; also the Memoirs of Chateaubriand. I have four or five on the table and I’m picking them up. I really like to vary from one book to another, even in the same afternoon.
What is the best argument to encourage someone to read?
It’s very difficult, it’s something you carry inside. Either you like it or you don’t like it.
But without a doubt you have encouraged many people, for a long time, to read. Thank you, Dr. Riquer, for all his work, and for his presence this afternoon.
You have been very kind and I thank you very much.
(Long applause)
