The energy, sharpness and determination of Svetlana Gánnushkina at almost 81 years old makes one think of what it must have been like three decades ago, when she began working for refugees and displaced persons in the conflicts that brought about the decomposition of the USSR, such as the first war in Nagorno Karabakh. . Her Citizens Assistance Committee has helped some 50,000 migrants and refugees from Central Asia, Syria and now Ukraine. She is a candidate for the Nobel Peace Prize, between 2002 and 2012 she was a member of the Presidential Council for Human Rights, which she abandoned due to the constitutional changes that have allowed Putin to remain in power. Last March, she was arrested on her 80th birthday for a demonstration in which she did not even participate. The police behaved “ideally”, she says. They congratulated her, took photos of her leaving the police station, after three hours, and laughed at her when she shouted “Glory to Ukraine!” “They could have stopped me then, but they didn’t have a warrant.” Later, the judicial process was a surreal farce and she was imposed the minimum fine, equivalent to 260 euros.
Is legality in Russia disappearing?
It already disappeared. There is an absolute and total destruction of the judicial system, which is completely dependent on power.
Is it because of the weakness of civil society, which has allowed it?
No doubt it is partly so. And because of our tendency to compromise, to reach agreements.
Elena Zhemkova says that Memorial failed to mobilize society and that today the biggest feeling among Russians is fear. How did we get to this?
We have lost the information war. We rarely went to schools and institutes, we have spoken little with people. I don’t like to say it but we have treated the population as if it were a client. Only at key moments did we give press conferences. When we went to Chechnya, more people knew us there than in Russia itself.
On the other hand, fear exists. But after February 24 [the date of the invasion of Ukraine] civil society has been able to organize itself in a way that has surprised us. There are citizen networks that help displaced people from Ukraine if they want to stay in Russia or go to Europe. They have thousands of people, they are wonderfully organized. I had a family that wanted to go to Germany because they had relatives there; A displaced woman arrived in Russia with her grandson, who is a year and a half old, and her son, who is 14. The child was pulled from the rubble of a building with head and spinal injuries. In that same bombardment the mother of the baby died. The boy was in a wheelchair, and the woman did not want to continue in Russia. I transmitted the case to the volunteers and within a week they arrived in Germany.
Who runs those networks?
They are people who had never been activists. One of the biggest organizers was a housewife with three children. Also, our institutions have received twice as many contributions as usual. It’s a way to get involved. Since February 24 we have raised 3.5 million rubles [about 45,000 euros], unheard of for an organization that works with immigrants.
Just before the invasion they were taking people from Donbas on buses and trains to Russia saying that the Ukrainians were going to attack…
That’s how it is. But I have never heard of physical violence in this process; They are not deportations. You are under bombardment in a basement, and when they open you up from above and tell you that there is a bus to go to a safe place…, nobody asks if there is another route. I did hear that when someone said they didn’t want to go to Russia the answer was: well, we have the Chechen option and you stay here forever. We cannot consider departure voluntary when there is only one route. Then there are the filtration fields. When people disappear…, they disappear. There are not many cases but they exist. The vast majority of those who were removed from Ukraine want to stay in Russia. The great role has been played by our propaganda, from my very primary point of view. Ukraine did not block our TV channels [in Donbas] and these people have understood our life from that propaganda. So, they say: you don’t like Putin? They are surprised that an organization that does not like Putin is helping them. It is very rare when people come who want to go to Europe. It’s surprising but that’s how it is.
There are perhaps a million Russians out of the country as a result of the war, although the process started earlier. What do you expect of them?
I do not want barriers between those of us who have stayed in Russia and those who have been able to leave. I keep talking and I say what I think, I think it is important that my voice comes from Russia. I am very sorry when those who have left say that they are worthy and those who have stayed are silent. It is not true, we are not silent. I am very sorry that those people who leave are not given refuge in European countries.
Is there distrust in Europe towards those Russians who arrive?
If that happens. Many do not obtain refuge or political asylum. I always say that the Russian who has come out has not only saved his life but also that of those he could have killed.