“Hamas politicians did not know about the attack on Israel”

The Palestinian journalist, feminist and secular Asmaa al Ghul (Rafah, 1982) was one of the women who faced the Islamist government of Hamas before exiling herself to France with her two children after the 2014 war. In that war she lost nine members from her family (currently, her cousin), when an Israeli bomb destroyed the house where she grew up. Her grandparents built it after being expelled in 1948 from the north of what is now Israel. The co-author of A Rebel in Gaza claims that the military branch of Hamas prevented the political branch from continuing with its project of becoming a “civilian” party because of October 7. And she assures that Hamas cannot be destroyed for being part of Gazan society. She was one of the “Voices of Palestine” invited to Barcelona by the CCCB, F. Tàpies, PEN Català, ICIP and IEMed, last week.

What did you think after the Hamas attack?

This is not about the Hamas attack. It’s before that. The siege of Gaza lasts more than 17 years, it is a prison. Every two years there is a new attack by Israel with thousands of deaths. Hope has disappeared. We must look for the reasons for the attack in the last 75 years, since my grandparents had to abandon their lands. And it must be very clear that it is a war against all Palestinians, because Israel has also attacked the West Bank. Of course mistakes were made on October 7th. That go against what Hamas believes. The Koran and Islam say that civilians should not be attacked. Even Salih al Aruri, one of the leaders of Hamas, has acknowledged this. When Hamas attacks Israeli military positions, it is resistance. That’s what we believe in, not in attacks against civilians.

Israel claims that Palestinians voted for Hamas and are therefore guilty of their actions.

The Israelis also elected Netanyahu, who is one of the most horrible prime ministers in history. I think nothing justifies what is happening in Gaza. There is collective punishment for all Palestinians. We must listen to the testimonies of these West Bank teenagers released from Israeli prisons. They killed six of them in prison. They did not give them enough food and they beat them. And you see the Israeli hostages, who Hamas has treated well. In my story I am against Hamas because I am secular and they are religious, but I respect what they are doing with the prisoners. Of course, they are prisoners after all. But at least they don’t punish everyone like Israel does.

What is it like to live under Hamas rule as a secularist?

It is very difficult to be secular both in Gaza and in the Middle East in general. Most of our society is conservative. Of course I was in trouble, it’s not a secret, I was in prison and I clashed many times with the Hamas government. All my life I have gone against conservatives and how they treat women. They want to control the decisions you make in life. But I also remember how I suffered during my childhood with the Israeli occupation, the first Intifada was horrible. All the time he was afraid of the soldiers who attacked the house every week. Then I grew up and was that type of girl who read a lot and had a free soul, that’s how my father raised me. I had many problems with my relatives, with society and, later, with the Hamas government.

Last week you lost part of your family in a bombing

They killed my cousin, with whom I grew up, and her children, and more than 17 people. She was feeding her children in the kitchen and the bomb came. He killed them all. Because in Palestine the whole family lives in the same building. That’s why when the Israelis attack a building, an entire family disappears from the world. It is a genocide. They were killed in Nuseirat, an area that the Israelis said was safe. People are still alive by accident in Gaza. My cousin had six children and she sent the three oldest to buy bread. They survived. She saved them without knowing it.

Do you still have family there?

Yes. This is why I’m afraid all the time. I can’t sleep. I fear that in the second part of the war Israel will kill my father or my sister and her little baby. Netanyahu can’t even see that we are a human being. When (Pedro) Sánchez went to the border in Rafah. Look how arrogant he is: he reprimanded the Spanish ambassador. Why? Did Sánchez say about saving Hamas? No, he said he saved the civilians.

Israel claims it wants to end Hamas, is it possible?

No. Hamas is among the people, it is part of society. You can’t kill an idea. Imagine, for example, that in Spain you want to take revenge on one of the parties. Can not. Israel is punishing two million people. The people Israel has killed are ordinary, secular people, from Al Fatah, from PLO parties, from the left or from the bourgeoisie of Gaza… They have killed 150 medical personnel. You cannot choose who is Hamas and who is not. They have killed 10,000 women and children. Are they Hamas?

Israel compares Hamas to the Islamic State (IS).

Hamas is a resistance movement, not like IS. Because, first of all, civilians did not sympathize with Isis fighters when they were in Iraq and Syria. And they came from many countries motivated by money and oil. Instead, Hamas fighters and leaders grow in Gaza from the beginning. They have fought from the beginning for the freedom of Palestine, they are part of history, and it is a very noble objective for us as a resistance. Furthermore, Hamas eliminated ISIS from the Gaza Strip. On the other hand, for me Israel is a terrorist, why can’t they be, because they are a state and we are not?

I see that your opinion of Hamas has changed with this war.

No. Hamas has not changed, the problems with personal freedoms remain. But in terms of politics, Hamas did change starting in 2017. In its “Document of General Principles and Policies” they recognized the Palestinian borders established in 1967. It was a big change. They began to establish an electoral process and also to build Gaza. They should have done a lot more about women’s rights, of course, but I don’t think anyone gave them the time to make changes. Especially the military part within Hamas.

What does it mean?

Suddenly, it happened on October 7th and destroyed everything Hamas had built. Do you think the political leaders of Hamas knew about the attack? I’m totally sure not. It was a surprise for them too. The military branch of Hamas did not give the political branch the opportunity to fully become a civilian party.

Who will govern the strip after the war?

I think it will continue to be Hamas, but perhaps with others. For example, there is Mohammed Dahlan, who was one of the leaders of Fatah. He is from Khan Yunis and is a strong leader, who supports Hamas. No one can govern Gaza without upsetting Hamas, you know? (Mahmud) Abas cannot do it, he is very weak. And the Palestinians will not accept anyone brought in by Israeli tanks. We are not in Iraq.

Are you referring to the government that the US imposed after its invasion of Iraq?

We will not accept the same fate as Iraq. By the way, this is a tougher war than Iraq and Syria, because in two months the Israelis have killed more civilians than the Americans and their allies in the first year of invasion in Iraq and in Afghanistan in 20 years, according to New York Times. I promise you that we will see Netanyahu in court for war crimes, even if it is 20 or 30 years from now. I will never forget, nor will I remain silent, in the name of my cousin. She [she says she with tears in her eyes].