Below is the transcript of an interview with Adam Schiff, a Democratic Representative from California, that was broadcast on Face the Nation Sunday, July 3, 2022.
MARGARET BRENNAN : California Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff is joining us now. He is a member and chairman of Intelligence Committee’s January 6 Select Committee. Good morning and it’s a pleasure to meet you in person.
REP. ADAM SCHIFF: Thank you. It’s good to be here with you.
MARGARET BRENNAN – I’d like to bring up what Secretary said when we were discussing this far-right group, The Proud Boys. This was one the militias that were involved in January 6. Cassidy Hutchinson was the ex-White House aide and Chief of – Chief Of Staff Mark Meadows testified that she witnessed conversations in the White House about the far-right group and another called the Oath Keepers. Do you have any evidence that these militias communicated with the White House?
REP.SCHIFF: While I don’t want too much to be ahead of what we plan to present at our next hearings (which will be held in the next few weeks), our very next hearing will focus on the efforts to gather that mob at the mall. Who was financing it? How it was organized. This includes the involvement of white-nationalist groups such as the Three Percenters, the Proud Boys and other white-nationalist groups. So we will be sharing the information that we have. While we don’t have all the answers, we are continuing our investigation into the exact issue you are describing.
MARGARET BRENAN: Hutchinson was very specific when she said Rudy Giuliani was the President’s personal lawyer. She heard about them talking about Rudy Giuliani.
REP.SCHIFF: This is why we were interested in his testimony, and also in other witnesses. We want to investigate any connections between these dangerous groups, the White House. Although we have some answers, there is still much we don’t understand that we are trying to uncover.
MARGARET BRENAN: This is an amazing allegation. We’ll keep an eye on that. Liz Cheney, vice-chair of this committee, stated that not prosecuting Trump for the attack on Capitol would pose a graver constitutional threat than the political problems associated with bringing charges. In an interview with ABC, she stated this. She said that there could be multiple criminal referrals. Are you inclined to agree?
REP.SCHIFF: Yes. I do. The Justice Department has held the view that it is not possible to indict an incumbent president for over four years. The Department could now say that it can’t indict or investigate a former president. A president is then above the law. This is a dangerous idea, and one that the founders would not have subscribed to. Donald Trump is even more dangerous. Donald Trump has proven that if he isn’t held accountable, he will continue to abuse his power in worse and more dangerous ways. California Judge Carter agreed with me. There was evidence that Trump had committed multiple violations of law and it should be investigated.
MARGARET BRENNAN : But this will also be a matter of political calculation. It is a divided country at the moment. Millions of people voted in the former president, believing that he won the election. Is it not possible to prosecute him?
REP.SCHIFF: This is not something to be taken lightly. However, immunizing a former President who has committed wrongdoing is something I agree with. The decision to not move forward or not to prosecute someone because of their political status, political influence, or simply because they have a following, is also dangerous. I believe that following the evidence to any former president is far more dangerous to our Constitution than following it.
MARGARET BRENAN: Adam Kinzinger, your colleague, was on another program today and stated that new witnesses had come forward since Cassidy Hutchinson’s testimony. How many? How important? Are there newer information requirements that require more hearings?
REP.SCHIFF: I believe there is more information coming forward. In terms of whether it will materialize into specific witnesses on this topic or not, we’ll wait and see. But we are following additional leads. These leads will likely lead to new testimony. We wanted her to appear before the public because we hoped that others would step forward and see her courage.
MARGARET BRENAN: Is she able to inspire the ex-White House Counsel Pat Cipollone to take up her request to speak with him again?
REP.SCHIFF: I do hope so. We are in talks with Mr. Cipollone’s counsel. We are hopeful that we will be able to work out how to bring him in for testimony. He clearly has information regarding his concerns about criminal violations, concerns that the President will visit the Capitol that day, and concerns that the chief of staff could have blood on their hands if they don’t do more in order to stop the violent attack on Capitol. It’s hard to imagine anyone more central, and I hope he will display the same courage that Cassidy Hutchinson displayed.
MARGARET BRENNAN – Who is trying to intimidate witnesses as Congresswoman Cheney stated, and what are the security threats against Hutchinson’s?
REP.SCHIFF: You know, I have to think that the security threats are quite severe. Our members feel them and hear them. Since the ex-president and his accomplices are pursuing her, I expect the same for her. We want to ensure her safety. There are many concerns. We are concerned about safety of witnesses. We also have concerns over those who try to intimidate or influence witnesses.
MARGARET BRENAN: –Who is doing this?
REP.SCHIFF: I don’t know how to comment but…
MARGARET BRENAN: –But do you know?
REP.SCHIFF: We wanted to let the country and everyone in the world of the former president know that they can intimidate witnesses and will be prosecuted. We hope the Justice Department will take action against them. We are also concerned about the fact some witnesses are sharing attorneys, which essentially, this gets some of the Cassidy Hutchinson testimony – that they’re reviewing transcripts and that they’re essentially coordinating their stories or that witnesses feel that they have big brother watching when they sit down for depositions.
MARGARET BRENAN: I’m sorry, Cassie Hutchinson said that Cassie Hutchinson was told a story about the tussle in the beast. It involved the president’s vehicle. He allegedly demanded to be taken to Capitol Hill and he allegedly lunged at the wheel. Tony Ornato (White House operations director) and Robert Engel (Secret Service agent) have been interviewed by the committee. This was the first time that you’ve heard about this incident. Was that their first time hearing about the incident?
REP.SCHIFF: I cannot go into detail about the previous testimony. However, I can tell you that I believe we would be interested in them coming back and any other information. The most important point is that there seems to be no dispute about the fact that the President was furious at the insurgent mob’s refusal to accompany him to the Capitol. This seems undisputed. The President also knew the mob was arming and wanted to take the magnetometers down to allow them to carry their arms to Capitol. Donald Trump seems to have no doubt about that. He has, as we have seen, absolutely no credibility.
MARGARET BRENNAN : Quickly, before you let me go, with your intelligence hat on here. The bullet used to kill Shireen Abu Akleh, an American journalist, has been turned over to the United States. Right now, it’s being tested for ballistics. What consequences would there be if she was indeed killed by Israeli soldiers?
REP.SCHIFF: I believe there should be an independent investigation to determine exactly what happened, who was responsible and why. Then, we can discuss the possible consequences. However, I believe there should be an objective investigation. The United States can play a role in this.
MARGARET BRENAN: Congressman Schiff, thank you for taking the time.
REP. SCHIFF – Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN – Face the Nation in a moment. Stay with us.
