N eila Chaabane was Secretary of State for Women, Children and Family Affairs in Tunisia’s last transitional government after the protests that toppled the Ben Ali regime. Dean of the Faculty of Legal, Political and Social Sciences at the University of Cartago, defends burning the veil as a protest and sees “similarities” between the uprisings in the Arab world a decade ago and the current protests in Iran, but she does not dares to give a prognosis about the future of Iranian women’s rights.
The participation of women in the Government of Tunisia remains very limited. Would it take a new Arab spring to achieve equality?
More than another spring, what is needed is for society to internalize parity. In Tunisia, we are more than 50.2% women. It is necessary for society to understand that women are there, that they have their place. Having a dozen ministers is not parity. The problem is deeper than a political change, it is a question of society.
Tunisia is always cited as the most favored country that emerged from the revolts.
If we are compared with neighboring countries, we are very advanced in terms of women’s rights. But, although women make up 60% of universities and the ones who obtain the best results, they do not occupy positions of power or decision-making. In addition, the percentage of active women has been 25% for 20 years, because work in agriculture and handicrafts, mainly occupied by women, is not counted.
In 2017, the Comprehensive Law against Gender Violence was approved. Why didn’t it go ahead when you presented the first project in 2014?
I thought that, being the first bill, we had to go to the end, because I knew there would be reactions.
Of the Islamist parties?
It is true that the fight against violence against women is exacerbated by Islamism, but Islam is not the cause of violence against women. The hostile reactions also came from parties that we can consider more evolved and democratic. Violence does not discriminate between classes, it occurs even among the most educated classes and, when it happens there, it is where there is more silence, because women do not dare to denounce.
What changed in three years for that law to be approved?
It was adopted in 2017, but with many modifications. It made it possible to implement mechanisms to facilitate care for victims, but the figures are still very high. The problem is that a law without a real will to implement it and without financial means is even more frustrating.
Do you think that a law like the one in Tunisia could prosper in Iran?
I see it very difficult. The structure of society and the figure of women are very different, because in Tunisia, even when the Islamists were in power, there was a very important female presence, something that does not happen in Iran.
What similarities do you see between the Arab Spring and the protests taking place in the Islamic Republic?
One of the similarities that I see is that neither the Arab Spring nor the Iranian protests have a leader. Those in Iran are popular movements of young people who are organized, I suppose, through social networks, as happened in Tunisia. The difference is that the protests in Iran are mainly followed by women, while in Tunisia there was a general weariness.
What do you think about burning the veil in the protests?
It is the symbol of all the violence that women are suffering. The protests are against its meaning, not against the piece of cloth. Under the Ben Ali regime in Tunisia, the veil was banned in public spaces, so for years many women who were not particularly religious wore it as a sign of protest. So, the veil, imposed, is a symbol of oppression, but depending on when it is worn, it is revolutionary. We cannot prohibit the veil to women who wear it out of conviction.
Do you think that the protests will allow Iranian women to win certain basic rights?
It is a complicated question to answer. One might wonder if the state feels in danger enough to open up a bit, or if, on the contrary, it is self-confident enough to resist and repress the protests by force to the end, as they have done before. In 2009 the situation was terrible and the regime resisted.
