Margarita Robles, who in June will celebrate six years at the head of the Ministry of Defense, receives La Vanguardia in her office at the ministerial headquarters after a phone call with the Secretary of Defense of the United States, Lloyd Austin. In the conversation they conveyed that they will continue to fully support Ukraine at a time of the war in which Zelensky’s army is showing worrying symptoms of fatigue. She assures that this issue, in an increasingly turbulent international panorama, is on her mind all day: “It is a crucial moment for Europe.” And in the background, Putin continues with his nuclear threat.
Several European leaders are calling for the rearmament of the European Union. Is the threat of war real?
The threat is total and absolute. All you have to do is listen to Putin’s latest statements, in which he talks about the possibility of nuclear aggression. Europe has to be aware that the danger is very close; It is not a pure hypothesis, it is real. The countries bordering Russia perceive this very well; Perhaps those of us in the south do not have that awareness, but civilization can be attacked by unscrupulous people like Putin.
The EU has just approved another 5 billion fund for Ukraine. Are you at a critical moment?
It is a very difficult moment, after two years of a terrible war with a very high price in human lives. Ukraine needs to continue to be supported. It is important that all the countries of the EU and the Atlantic Alliance are aware that we must continue doing so because we support freedom, values ??and that the world cannot be in the hands of someone who commits terrible massacres of civilians like Putin.
Could there be a sudden imbalance in favor of Russia in the coming months without a real capacity to respond?
I hope that all allies continue to support Ukraine because we are risking Europe’s reason for existence. One of the most positive things that has happened with this war is the unity that exists between all the countries of the EU and NATO. And the position of the United States is also important, despite the pre-electoral moment. And the position of the Joe Biden Administration now is one of complete and absolute support for Ukraine.
His number two counterpart in Estonia says that Ukraine “has never been so close to defeat.” Do you share this diagnosis?
The big loser is Putin because he thought that in ten days he would defeat the Zelensky regime. He has not achieved that. It is true that two years have passed, that every day the situation is more difficult for Ukraine than for Russia. But I see that Ukrainian morale is very high. Recently, Ukrainian soldiers told me that they are not fighting only for Ukraine, but for a community of democratic values ??such as the one we have in Europe. Therefore, I think it is unreasonable to talk about Ukraine being defeated.
Until now there has always been talk of supporting Kyiv to defend itself. Is it time to say that Ukraine must win?
I believe that Ukraine must win the war and has to make an effort to do so. It’s true that we all thought that last summer’s counteroffensive would be more successful, but that doesn’t mean we should get depressed.
If Putin wins the war, is there a fear that he could attack another country like Estonia?
It is a scenario that we should not consider because operationally it would not be good. But let’s be clear: Putin is a huge threat to neighboring countries, but also to the international community as a whole. Nowadays, a ballistic missile can perfectly reach Spain from Russia. I would like to make a call to attention to Spanish society because sometimes I have the perception that we are not aware of the enormous danger that exists at this moment. And not only in Ukraine; also in Gaza and in the Sahel, where I am very pessimistic about the situation.
Do you think that the Government and the group of political actors pay the attention it deserves to this worrying war scenario?
The Government is fully committed to this war scenario. The president, the Minister of Foreign Affairs and myself are focused on this issue 24 hours a day. The Government is having prudent and discreet leadership at the EU level.
In this very worrying scenario, do you have direct dialogue with the main opposition party?
No, because the times that I have appeared in the Congress of Deputies to talk about Ukraine I have never found a position of support, but on the contrary: always trying to seek criticism. In any case, I have always said that defense policies are State policies and I would like the Popular Party to support the Government on this issue because we are committed to the democratic values ??of the European Union.
Macron has once again insisted on sending soldiers to Ukraine
We do not understand, like most NATO countries, that it is appropriate to send troops to Ukraine because that would mean an escalation. And at this time escalation must be avoided at all costs. Since the beginning of the invasion, NATO’s position from a military point of view has always been to avoid any type of escalation. Sending troops would mean a very important escalation and even the possibility of the war spreading. Spain is dedicated to Ukraine, but we do not give it as much publicity as other countries do.
A year ago, he assured La Vanguardia that “Spanish troops will never, ever participate in the war in Ukraine.” Is that headline still valid with such forcefulness?
Definitely. Spanish troops are not and will not be in Ukraine.
Is a shipment of military material planned soon?
We are constantly sending material to Ukraine and we will make a significant effort in the coming weeks.
The threat of an atomic explosion in Europe continues to intensify…
I hope we never find ourselves in that scenario, but we also cannot forget that Putin has put that threat on the table. And without forgetting countries like North Korea, with nuclear capabilities. I insist: the situation in the world is very complicated.
Prominent German politicians have proposed that the EU have its own nuclear arsenal. What position does the Government have?
It is an issue that the Government has never raised as such because Spain’s position is clear: we are in no way in favor of the use of nuclear weapons. But we have to be aware that if a nuclear attack were put on the table, from any side, it would be something terrible for our way of coexistence as we are building it.
Would this very complex scenario that you draw get worse with a victory for Donald Trump?
His statements are absolutely worrying. He has said that if any of the NATO countries do not reach 2% of their GDP in defense investment and are attacked by Russia, the United States would do nothing. This represents a flagrant violation of the Washington Treaty; a bankruptcy of what NATO is.
How are you going to convince Spanish society of these needs you speak of?
Spanish society is very aware that the world is very threatened and knows perfectly well that you cannot access, for example, certain privileges if you do not have peace. And precisely because we want peace, we have to be prepared for it.
The President of the Government has just resigned from promoting the general budgets for this year. To what extent can the fact that there are no budgets affect Defense?
We continue with extended budgets. A very important effort has been made in these years in which the PSOE governs to increase the defense budget, because the armed forces during the Popular Party government were very abandoned. We found ourselves short of material and ammunition. The extended budget will allow us to continue working on defense programs, which help us preserve peace and create jobs.
Sánchez has committed to the recognition of the Palestinian State, what consequences can the initiative have in this global scenario?
It is an absolutely necessary initiative to create a scenario of peace in the Middle East. The creation of the Palestinian State today has proven to be essential. All countries in the area appreciate that position. What is happening in Gaza, with these terrible massacres of innocent civilians, is something that is unacceptable from any point of view.
Is this Spanish position understood in the United States?
In his latest interventions, Biden has supported the creation of a second State and has been very critical of what is happening in Gaza because these massacres of civilians are absolutely unacceptable. That humanitarian material does not reach Gaza is difficult to understand.
And finally, what is the future of the Spanish soldiers in the missions in Iraq and Mali?
The Iraqi Government understands that the objective of the mission against Daesh has already been met, however, the other international mission will continue. Regarding the issue of Mali, in May the EU will have to decide whether to continue or not. As far as Spain is concerned, we continue to expand our presence, for example, within the scope of our commitments to the Atlantic Alliance in terms of international missions. We have already started the deployment in Slovakia and in the coming months we will also continue the deployment in Romania.
