In the noisiest world in history in which social networks encourage us to speak but not to listen and in which platforms like TikTok are, it ensures, like fentanyl, a world in which it seems that the only way to stand out and be visible, whether in social networks, work meetings or with those around us, is to talk non-stop, especially in the case of men, who do not hesitate to interrupt women or give them lessons, the journalist Dan Lyons publishes Shut up ( Captain Swing). A call to stop giving opinions on everything, to have meaningful conversations, to know how to be silent. A silence that, he says, can be transformative and healing – monks live on average five more years – in the face of a noise that he denounces makes us sick, also physically. A call to disconnect more from the networks and learn to listen without lecturing. Not keeping quiet led him to almost lose his partner and leave a job in Silicon Valley for which he would have millions today.
How did we get to the noisiest world in history?
We have created a culture where we equate success with the ability to get attention. We tell people that a podcast is something that everyone should do, and also have an opinion on everything. Some of the noise has been enabled by social media. And somehow this is all out of control. Statistics say that half of the meetings we have are meaningless. We have created a kind of mental illness on a social scale that has made the world very noisy, with a lot of polarization and a lot of anger, to which all of this contributes.
In his book he harshly attacks social networks. Weren’t they going to be a global plaza, a utopia?
In its beginnings, Facebook was going to unite us all. And social networks have a beneficial part, they connect us, but they can be harmful. And the business model to monetize them through advertising, to get the most money from each user, is to keep them connected as long as possible. Talking, tweeting, sharing, participating. And the best way to achieve this is to get angry, to stay irritated. They are very good at creating algorithms that keep people agitated. They use artificial intelligence and powerful computers to understand everything about you and are good at manipulating you psychologically. And there is no way out of there, it is the price you pay for using them. And once there, the algorithm trains you to post provocative messages because they are the ones that get the most response. People post more and more angry content and in the end they take it into their lives, damaging it even when offline.
He says they rewire the brain and create a kind of split personality.
They do it. At the beginning of social networks, we said that people said things online that they would never say to their faces in daily life. Now they say it to your face. There is anger. And people like Trump have taken advantage of it.
He assures that this hyperstimulation damages our brains and our health. As?
Because of cortisol, a hormone, which is released by this low-intensity chronic stress. That constant cortisol leads to inflammatory diseases, makes your brain not work as well and harms you physically. We live in a state of constant mild stimulation that damages us.
You use yourself as an example in your book that talking too much can be a problem.
Talking too much is good and bad, it helped me in my work in television but ended up damaging my marriage and my relationships with my children. And professionally my sarcasm cost me a job that today would have given me a lot of money. Learning to be silent has helped my marriage, after separating we have gotten back together. There are studies that show that couples who share time in silence strengthen the bond. And I have a better relationship with my children. And professionally I’m better. I’ve learned to avoid those moments where you want to say something, and I feel better spending time consciously trying to be silent. That then goes to the rest of your life, like the anger of social media.
Also add a gender issue: men are happy to listen to each other and give lessons, they have conversational narcissism and a lot of egotistical talk.
Yes, there is a gender problem. More than she imagined when she began the investigation. Men interrupt more frequently, and they tend to interrupt women. I call it manterrupting, manalogues. The funny thing is that the stereotype says that those who talk a lot are women. We talk more and interrupt them, we suppress their voices, another way of keeping them silent.
Paradoxically, remember that powerful people, be they Jeff Bezos or Anna Wintour, don’t need to talk much.
In his book on power, Robert Greene points out that the powerful always speak less than necessary. I believe there is a lot of power that can be gained by speaking less. You let people talk, you listen and learn everything from them and suddenly you know the different parts of what’s going on around you more than anyone else.
Is Joe Biden the best example that there is hope?
He was the king of gaffes speaking and he managed to turn it around in an incredible way. Every time he had tried to run for president he failed because of his mistakes. When he appeared with Obama, a newspaper kept track of how many days they had gone by without screwing up. And in the last election he started the same way in the first primary debate. He hired a speech coach and suddenly it was all discipline, quick answers, next. One of the keys to his choice was that he managed to keep his mouth shut. It gives me hope.
Talk about the need to have meaningful conversations. And to learn to listen without giving lessons. How is it done?
A University of Arizona researcher, Matthias Mehl, has shown a correlation between having meaningful conversations, happiness, and even the immune system. People who spend more time in substantive conversations are happier than those who spend it in chit-chat and chatter. Those types of conversations, he says, involve listening more, a balance between talking and asking, connecting and empathizing. Listening is a capacity that we can develop, starting by remembering before conversations that we should do it. And it is powerful. You make the lives of others better by being a good listener.
He assures that new times are about listening and learning.
You can see it in how products are created today. Before they came to you with a product and tried to sell it to you with marketing. Today its creation begins with listening