Manfred Weber has traveled to Barcelona to participate in an economic conference today, with Alberto Núñez Feijóo and other political and business figures.
Are you satisfied with the debate in Strasbourg on the rule of law in Spain?
I’m glad it was celebrated. It was important for us to have an exchange on the issue. I was quite surprised that the left was not even willing to debate this, considering that millions of people, hundreds of thousands in the streets, and many civil society organizations are asking Europe to speak up. It is not just a Spanish issue.
But the Justice Commissioner, Didier Reynders, stated that the Catalan question is an internal matter for Spain and only announced that he would be vigilant with the amnesty law.
The Commission must be based on facts. I am very happy that he sent a letter a week after we had the final agreement (between the PSOE and Junts), in which he raised questions. We know that the process in Congress has just begun and there will be amendments. We will see the development. And Reynders has already said that it will not be the last debate about Spain.
Aren’t you afraid that the extreme right will capitalize on the opposition to the amnesty in Spain?
I do not look at the left, which is blind considering Spain’s problems, nor the right-wing extremists, who will never be reasonable partners in this political process. My party is Donald Tusk’s party. We kicked out Jaroslaw Kaczynski in Poland a few weeks ago. This is the DNA of the EPP, which fights for the rule of law and against corruption throughout Europe.
But do you really think that the situation in Spain is comparable to that of Poland and Hungary?
A negative path starts with a bad first step. That’s why we have to be very critical. My main concern is that we have on the table a political agreement that proposes to establish a special commission in Congress to check the judgments of independent courts. This breaks the rule of law. And I am surprised that the application of this political pact is controlled by someone from Geneva. But what madness is this! That the new Spanish Government be in the hands of a political instance that meets monthly in Geneva! I don’t think it’s normal. This gives us an idea that something is going wrong in Spain.
What doubts does the amnesty raise?
It is true that amnesty is also an option in other countries. But it is not a tradition in Europe that it is used for more than a thousand people, some of them with serious crimes in their history. In a way, it is a unique thing. We had a similar case in Romania and it failed.
You said that the Spanish Government is legitimate, do you think that the Spanish PP has internalized this idea?
I want to be very clear: Pedro Sánchez is the president of the Government of Spain. We fully respect the decision of the Congress, which was democratically elected. So there is no doubt about this matter.
You are Bavarian and Germany is a federal state. What solution does he propose for the territorial conflict in Spain?
We Bavarians are very proud of our regional identity. But not even Bavaria has the self-government of Catalonia. There is already a lot of freedom, a lot of political space. What Spain and Europe need at this moment is unity. It amuses me that we are so obfuscated with our little problems when war and crisis are approaching our borders. Feijóo also has a strong regional identity, but he is Spanish and he is a European.
How is your relationship with Ursula von der Leyen? Can the PPE’s support for her re-election as president of the Commission be taken for granted?
She is a strong president. He is considering whether to apply again. We respect that. He has great support and also much to contribute to a united EPP. We will nominate our candidate at the Bucharest congress in March next year.
With whom would he feel more comfortable making an agreement, with the socialists and liberals, like now, or with Giorgia Meloni, Santiago Abascal, Geert Wilders…?
Considering the Spanish experience, a lot depends on the socialists. Feijóo proposed a government of national unity to carry out important reforms and Sánchez rejected it. So what can I say? That’s how socialists are. They are putting their career, their selfishness, before unity. And this also has an impact on a European scale. If you ask me, I want to keep Europe united. But you have to ask Sánchez, who said: “Please, do everything possible to prevent Vox from coming to power.” But he was not prepared to do that, to form a coalition with the PP that would have been the only and best way to exclude Vox and other extremists such as the Catalan separatists from access to power.
Does he intend to approach Meloni’s party?
Yes, we are ruling together. The Minister of Foreign Affairs, Antonio Tajani, is the president of Forza Italia. We have clearly defined the principles: governing parties must be pro-European, pro-Ukraine and pro-Israel at this time, and they must be pro-rule of law. And the three criteria fully coincide in Italy. It’s a normal centre-right majority. Those criteria exclude any cooperation with the German AfD, with Marine Le Pen in France or with Kaczynski in Poland. They are our enemies. They want to destroy Europe. The leaders of the AfD say publicly: “This Europe must die”. I tell them that I will always fight for this Europe. It’s my Europe. It is a Christian democratic Europe.
